Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

2 Timothy 3:15-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby moderator » Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:37 pm

It is commonly said that where the local assemblies failed, parallel organizations came into its form; Hitherto, we analyse the need of such orgs on a scriptural base. Are they draining out the resources of the assemblies in turn donating unhealthiness to the body of Christ? I Cor 3:16-17 is a warning - pesonal or corporate
Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby c s thomas » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:40 am

Before discussing anything on this let me put certain things that has to be thought before taking this question;
    Why did the local assemblies fail?
    Was it not God's establishment at a place as a lampstand?
    If an assembly has to fail there can be a design fault or implementation fault; Was it God's fault? Was the people who were the implementors faulty?
    God cannot do mistakes, it is the fundamental truth that we live on; then where are the implementors or subjects?
Yes we as implementors have failed in this age of disposition. The discipline in the house of God is least bothered by the sons of God. It holds out buckles and drags to be accountable. Where are the shepherds that are supposed to lead the flock. Where are the teachers of the Word? Where are our people who are blessed with various gifts of HS? All have fallen. Yes that is when we look for lessons from the world like the Israelites; ' We should be ruled '; We need a King is same as telling we need an autocracy or democracy? And that is this age. Who can repair this old wagon?
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby jacobsamp » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:21 pm

Special prayer request
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby PramodR » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:42 am

Good steppe Brotheren; Prayer has power; but some how i feel it should have been a Prayer committee then God would bless the initiative my doubt okie; I am also delighted to see if our assemblies are not feeling the need since my assembly elders / brotheren did not read this at all in the assembly; I know the reason - some brothers are against it. what a difficult siutuation for elders when they have to steppe back from reading a prayer cordination meeting bu being afraid of the assembly splitting and other personal politics and issues; (in our assembly almost 40-50% are aginst this group and is the cause for this) this forum riases and answers the right question
I got the answer - as long as the assembly is locally independent they always has decision to take to be for or against on any body even an organisation
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby do-or-die » Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:23 am

William MacDonald's insight on our LOYALTY

EACH ASSEMBLY INDEPENDENTLY RESPONSIBLE TO CHRIST – William MacDonald (Be loyal to…)
There is another principle in the Word of God that should guide us in connection with the assembly, namely that each assembly is independent and responsible only to Christ. There is no such thing in the New Testament as a denomination, a federation of churches, or a circle of fellowship. There is no headquarters on earth, exercising authority of any kind over local assemblies.
The headquarters of the church is where the Head is—in heaven.
Every local church should carefully avoid anything that might lead to centralized control on earth.
This centralization is the evil that has hastened the spread of modernism. The liberals have seized control of the denominational headquarters and of the seminaries. They knew that if they could control the headquarters, then eventually they could control all the churches.
The formation of a central group often comes from government pressure or from a desire to obtain certain benefits from the government. But then centralization makes it easy for totalitarian governments to suppress the church. If they capture a few denominational leaders, they can control the activities of the entire denomination.

God's will is that each assembly should be an independent unit, responsible directly to the Lord Jesus. This hinders the spread of error, and enables the church to go underground more easily in times of persecution.
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby jobinjohn » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:51 pm

The Dangers of Extreme Calvinism

One of the issues that the Christian Church has had to face over the years is the debate between Calvinism and Arminianism. One side says that Gods election (choosing) is the ultimate path to salvation, while the other side says that mans free-will desires salvation.

This debate is quickly spilling over into our New Testament assemblies. Assemblies have usually taken a middle of the road position on this issue. We see the truths of God choosing (Romans 11:7) and man choosing (Matthew 23:37 and Luke 18:22-23) both taught in Scripture. And if we dont completely understand how these two concepts fit together, we still accept all that the Bible has to say about this issue.

Yet there are some within our assemblies who are pushing us to take a more Calvinistic view. Some are graduates of the schools we have supported, and some have simply fallen under the sway of well meaning but extremely zealous Calvinists. I write this article because I am afraid that extreme Calvinism has serious consequences, and is going to damage many assemblies over the next few years, and will cause much disunity and many splits.

Perhaps the greatest danger of extreme Calvinism is its obsessive nature. While some who hold this view possess fine Christian character, many can talk about little else. They will push the doctrine of election when they preach, when they pray and when they worship. Some will even push for the adoption of this doctrine to become a test of fellowship. Some assemblies, having fallen under the influence of strong Calvinists, now declare that a man cannot be an elder until he has understood Gods sovereign grace (which is a euphemism for adopting a strongly Calvinist position). It is probable that these people will feel that other Christians have a defective view of Gods sovereignty.

Another danger concerns how extreme Calvinists deal with Scripture. Any verse that seems to imply human decision must be explained away or made to fit into some sophisticated theory. Some verses are radically reinterpreted. For example, an extreme Calvinist would say that the gift in Ephesians 2:8-9 is faith, not salvation. They will tell us that references to world, as in John 3:16, do not actually refer to all men, but only the elect.

A third danger concerns how the Gospel is preached. We are thankful for every Calvinist who sees the need to preach the Gospel (and most do see this need), but we might be surprised at some of what they say. Instead of calling out for sinners to repent and make their decision today, they will pray that God would give them grace. It is likely that a sinner would be confused at what the Calvinist is saying. An extreme Calvinist can never tell a sinner that God loves them and wants to save them, because in their system of theology, God only loves some. The extreme Calvinist will never tell sinners that Christ died to save them, because under their system of theology, Christs atonement is limited, and He only died for some.

The final danger of extreme Calvinism is that it presents an unbiblical viewpoint of the character of God. Some in the Calvinist camp, including Arthur W. Pink, and even John Calvin himself believed that God creates people for the purpose of damning them. If this was the teaching of Scripture, we would be forced to accept it, but it is not. Such views are the speculations of theological extremists.

The relationship between Gods election and mans choosing is a deep one. There are no easy answers. But both truths are taught in Scripture. Calvinists are not cultists, but brothers and sisters who have taken a Biblical truth to an unbiblical extreme. Calvinism, in its extreme form has very serious consequences, and those who shepherd the believers, as well as all Christians who love the Word of God and the Gospel, must guard against those who would push us into a dangerously one-sided position.
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby moderator » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:06 am

WARNING: This forum is meant for discussions with spiritual insight and for edification. Please refrain from posting personal reference at these discussions BASED ON ASSUMPTION, THOUGH WE ALLOWED SCREENSHOTS FOR VALIDITY of INFORMATION POSTED. We will be forced to review the comments and edit those posts if this decorum is not maintained. Please avoid your speculations.

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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby we4brethren » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:52 am

Extreme Calvinism is becoming a danger in our midst.
Now there are many who strongly teaches that the Lord has elected people for salvation. They will be saved in any way. So the ultimate claim is that it is not necessary to share gospel.
Does the bible say the predestination in this sense. Let us have a look at this..
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby moderator » Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:10 am

WARNING: This forum is meant for discussions with spiritual insight and for edification. Please refrain from posting personal reference at these discussions BASED ON ASSUMPTION. We are forced to review the comments and delete those posts for which this decorum is not maintained. Please avoid your speculations on any Organizations among the brethren. The purpose of this forum is to understand the scriptural base of New-Testament Assembly design and the impact of para-church organizations.
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby Biju Thomas » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:36 pm

Before I bring this out ,Let me say I disagree with many things from ths santhosha dwani . It is the other side of the same coin .

But this is very interesting . One brother running an organisation named Operation Barnabas has collected more than 1 crore rupees (1,31,44,49) mostly from GMI USA for distributing funds . He claims to be the master mind of BCCF , writes openly against BCCF , but supports the idea of a central hoerarchial committiee in Brethren Churches.this is only because he's not nominated to BCCF. His right hand is in the media cell of BCCF.

Nothing personal about him - this is only to introduce the act of these ministries .

We common Brethren are shocked . If any one can mobolize this big fund bringing out the names of ministries , how much more can come in in the name of churches authorized committiees. ?

1. Why is this fund coming in from some organisation abroad ? What is the source of this fund ?
2. To whom is this fund distributed? How much commission or withholding fund under possesion of such ministries ?
3. What is being done with the support of this fund ?
4. Do Brethren need such ministries ? There are many such distributors in India , who collect money from various sources and spread it . This has become an establishment to run such pocket ministries to bring in money and become the power sources for distribution of fund.
We can only call them as power and money brokers, not ministers.did any church authorize these ministers ?
5.Is this in the will of God, in the interest of local Brethren Churches ?

They are not a Brethren idea , because they don't beleive Brethren local church practices are practically possible.
They are worried about so called ministries . they want local churches to become under one committiee so that their ministries can grow.
They are not brethren . We don't want any ministries that would over power Local churches. You can do them at your own risk , spare us , local Assemblies.

When you go to Kumbanad , you may stop by near the grave yard of Noel Sayippe .Not as a piligrimage - The memories might be very helpful.
These missionories sold out all they had in NZ came to kerala , bought land , lived with the people in the locality and became one among the people of this locality .
They made schools ,distributed all they had and became friends of the people. They helped the people , with their money . They did not bring huge funds from outside and build super ministries .

When Noel Madamma was returning back to NZ when she was old , she went and asked the money people had borrowed from her . Many did not return the money.(dont want to name anyone) She said , i have to account all this , so please give me back the money . Account whom ? .I have heard she did this 3 times . Rest is history. I don't want to be painful here.

They had set us an example . that was true ministries which touched thousands by their presence , by their words , by their deeds.

We stand on their foot steps at Kumbanad , the land they bought out their wealth and make decisions to ruin everything they did sweat for GOD.
This is very cruel !!

If 2 or 3 men gather and sing a song in his name , we now turn it to be a music ministry .We then find ways to bring in money .

ALL THE SO CALLED FUNDING AGENCIES ACTIONS NEED TO BE STRICTLY MONITERED . I URGE BRETHREN NOT TO SEND ANY SUCH FUNDS , BECAUSE THIS IS SPOILING THE BRETHREN CHURCHES FELLOWSHIP. NOW ITS THE MATTER OF WHO'S MORE AUTHORIZED BY CHURCHES TO GET MORE FUND.MINISTRIES EVERYWHERE ,ALL IN THE NAME OF FUND .
A COMMON MAN TAKES YEARS AND EVEN LIFE TIMES TO COME UP TO A FIGURE RS.1,31,44,49 .

IF YOU DONT STOP THESE FUNDS , VERY PAINFUL TO SAY , BRETHREN CHURCHES WILL GO FOR VERTICAL SPLITS.
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby brethrenAB » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:06 am

Dear Biju,
This report is assumed about gmi support. I had read it in magazines differently. attached a copy here
Can't it be that believers are burdened to support a good work in India?
Lots of things are being accomplished by this ministry?
Doesn't it has a positve side?

A BRETHREN
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby we4brethren » Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:05 pm

Dear biju, what is your intention
Is the report of Santhosha dwani is right.
did you clarify it with Brother Roy T Daniel ( Operation Barnabas)

Why do you focus on media chief.
Even in the last thread which was deleted was aiming on media chief of BCCF. Please don't use public forum for personal malice.
The media chief of BCCf's connection with Operation Barnabas, as per my knowledge is that he is the editor of Insight India. Nothing less or nothing more. If operation baranabas collect money, Barnabas has to clarify
Do you have any idea about the money collected by the editor of santhosha dwani. Do you think that his ministry runs out of his own source. does he gives account of the money he collects from abroad

These are all sincere doubts.

Please stick on the subject relevance of organization based on scripture. Or else the moderators has to delete these personalized informations
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby brethrenAB » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:05 pm

As an ordinary believer, I agree and disagree here.
Disagreement here is that Detailing on any fund should be done personally and not through any print or electronic media. So Mr Santhosha dhwani might be making an assumption. He cannot print that and send it across the world. Let Mr.SD and Mr.OB worry about this. The OB fund here, is making sure that there is no pattern of donation to an evangelist. But there are other funds who give constant amount as a salary? Hence the fund secretary becomes an ‘employer’ alias 'anna dhaaana dhataavu' ?

But I agree with Biju as I feel that he is sincere in trying to find answers to the following.
Why a fund need to collect a huge lump of money? – A need should be identified by an individual with resources, instead of a fund secretary dividing the ‘bread’ for distribution. God gives that burden to that individual. Then, why should he channel it through a fund? Why can’t he himself send a check to the evangelist by post and finish it off.

Where is the biblical model for this? I wish it is not the model of collection for Jerusalem church or admonishing to the Corinthian Church. I have pity on those who proudly take that context.

Why can’t these believers who donate to funds do it directly? The usual answer is who has time man ? – let the fund guys do it man :)

Why is that we fail to understand our ministries? – mostly the answers are “It is not my job, I give 10% flat cut to the fund – my job is over – I have done what God wants. I am happy loved and saved”

As an ordinary believer, I know the ministries around me and prayerfully help them. Especially when there are allegations in the land of India that conversions are being done out of money from abroad, aren’t we giving way to these accusations? I would hence think this attitude of believers SHOULD change.
I agree with Biju that believers shouldn’t pump loads of money unwisely like giving to a fund.


There is no need for a funding agency to distribute resources. It should be the job of individuals. Hence these organizations are irrelevant.
Also in the publishing above, OB is requesting believers to request with valid proof for help. Which otherwise means that the uncertainty of a proof would enable a funder to do a wrong funding? Why can’t the individual take this burden instead of a legacy world organization.

Overall, I am thinking that the demerits are more than the merits for a funder.
I urge LOCAL ASSEMBLIES and BRETHREN, not to divert the resources of the Church to organization created by human s
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby c s thomas » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:12 pm

Well said, brethrenab
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby c s thomas » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:15 pm

i repeat my questions

Why did the local assemblies fail?
Was it not God's establishment at a place as a lampstand?
If an assembly has to fail there can be a design fault or implementation fault; Was it God's fault? Was the people who were the implementors faulty?
God cannot do mistakes, it is the fundamental truth that we live on; then where are the implementors or subjects?

CST
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby Biju Thomas » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:19 pm

My concern is all these are fighting to know WHO'S MORE AUTHORIZED BY CHURCHES TO GET MORE FUND.
BCCF intentions are also the same .

Barnabas is bringing crores ( did not clarify with Barnabas) , but this seem to be from a public statement given out by Barnabas .

Insight is by this person (He claims to be) , BCCF Media cheif is the cheif editor of Insight .

BCCF,Barnabas,Media cheif,Payyanuur and all such "Ministers" are ruining our society .

What is going on ??

My Intentions
1. Disagree to BCCF , Ask them to dissolve , because this is very dangerous for Brethren Churches.
2. Lead of Operation Barnabas - Disagree to BCCF due to personal reasons , but agree to one central commettiee and he writes in Insight that a central committiee is essential . He is not a Brethren , he is a Minister , looks for a ministerial hierarchial church , which is against NT Beleifs.
He should be opposed , because his intentions are the same as BCCF . He only wants to claim he's the man behind the idea .
They both are ideologicaly same. Both are not Brethren , not according to NT beleifs.

Why is this all happening ??????

Because of power , fame and money .
example :

Rs 1,31,44,49 received for a ministry in Bangalore in a short span ???

what is the source - where is it spend ??

HOW MUCH MORE IS BEING DISTRIBUTED AROUND ??
IS THIS WHAT WE ARE CALLED FOR ??????
DO WE NEED SUCH PAID MINISTERS ????

NOW INSIGHT LEADER AND BCCF PUTS EVANGALIST AS A HUMAN SHEID TO BRING IN MONEY POWER AND FAME .
THEY SAY THEIR MINISTRY IS MORE IMPORTANT . CHURCHES AND THEIR BELIEFS CAN BE SECONDARY ..

THIS IS WHAT BISHOP K.P YOHANANAN ALSO SAID ..

I'm a Brethren believer . They are ruining my personal beliefs for their personal gain .
i don't beleive in these man made ministers for power , fame and money . they have no right to say my beliefs should be re-written for their job (ministry).


THEY CAN MOVE OUT OF BRETHREN CHURCHES IF THEY FEEL SO , WHY TROUBLE MY BELEIFS ???
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby Biju Thomas » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:29 pm

My intentions - I believe the ministries must be personal . If I feel I cut a check of 10 % and finished my job , its foolish .
I'm accountable to every penny you spend .

Do you know how your personal contrbutions are spend ???

--------------------
"When you go to Kumbanad , you may stop by near the grave yard of Noel Sayippe .Not as a piligrimage - The memories might be very helpful.
These missionories sold out all they had in NZ came to kerala , bought land , lived with the people in the locality and became one among the people of this locality .
They made schools ,distributed all they had and became friends of the people. They helped the people , with their money . They did not bring huge funds from outside and build super ministries .

When Noel Madamma was returning back to NZ when she was old , she went and asked the money people had borrowed from her . Many did not return the money.(dont want to name anyone) She said , i have to account all this , so please give me back the money . Account whom ? .I have heard she did this 3 times . Rest is history. I don't want to be painful here.

They had set us an example . that was true ministries which touched thousands by their presence , by their words , by their deeds.
We stand on their foot steps at Kumbanad , the land they bought out their wealth and make decisions to ruin everything they did sweat for GOD.
This is very cruel !!
"
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby do-or-die » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:46 am

Amen Biju;

Please read through this article...
Organizations like BCCF seems to be worse and evil than a 'confederation' as they expose brethren assemblies as a single entity - BRETHREN SABHA

___________________________________________________________________________________________
Church confederation- right or wrong
By Michael Browne, U K.
(An Adaptation from the Book Church Confederation Right or Wrong? by Michael
Brown, U K)


Argument against the need for ‘Confederation of Local Assemblies’ in India.
This is an argument opposing the current agitation for the “Confederation” of independent local churches in India – in order, as its exponents feel, to present a forceful united voice to Government authorities in face of renewed religious persecution

The Growing persecution of Christians across international boundaries in country after country is currently a major concern in both the local Christian communities and the whole global Christian profession. Tape, harassment, and martyrdom has raised its ugly head gain in Indian where only a few years ago Australian missionary Graham Stains was incinerated alive with his two little sons by Hindu fanatics in the state of Orissa.,. In the same Orissa State within the past year anti-Christian violence has flared up again with scores of Christian Churches being torches and Christian slaughtered for forced to deny their faith!

What should be the attitude of Christians towards this on0going oppression? Why has it happened and what is the Christian response?
In the nature of assemblies seeking to follow New Testament principles, they have no confederated voice or energy. They appear insignificant and irrelevant to both national and local authority where in any given location they are simply one small religious group—easily overlooked and marginalized!

Because of this there are brethren among Indian assemblies who sincerely feel that independent autonomous, local churches are by reason for their autonomous status too vulnerable and stand isolated in their individual entities. They need an authoritative corporate voice to be able to call for protection from actual physical attack, and financial support for legal representation in cases of unjust litigation. So the case of some kind of confederation is presented as an answer to this very real predicament. But while a ‘confederation’ of isolated and independent local churches may appear to be the logical and human answers to the problem, is it the spiritual and biblical answer?
No Confederation of Churches seen anywhere in Scripture.It is significant that in the face of the severest persecution of the early Church age, represented historically by the early letter to the seven churches (Rev. 2: 2), the churches are still seen in their individual entities as far as the Lord of the churches is concerned! No confederation of the churches is suggested by scripture anywhere, as a response to persecution. The ‘seven churches’ were always that- seven individual lampstands on their own individual bases!

The fact of harassment, persecution and martyrdom is explicit and actual in Christian communities across continents and nations in our present day world. The apostle Peter forewarned the Christians in all generations not to thin it strange should fiery trails beset them. “Beloved, thin it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you… but rejoice, inasmuch as you are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when His glory shall be revealed you may be glad also with exceeding joy” (1 Peter 4: 12-13). Heavenly wisdom, instruction and strong consolation from the Bible await the believer who is counted worthy to suffer for Christ’s sake. The Christian, illuminated by Holy Scripture, knows that the ‘secret power of lawlessness’ (2 Thessalonians 2:7) has been working in opposition to God in the world from apostolic days, and part of that ‘mystery’ is the bitter persecution leveled against the testimony of God through an alienated world system controlled by one malicious master-mind. John says of that wicked one, “and we know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power [control] of the Evil One” (1 John 5:19 ESV) The Christian’s Warfare is Spiritual NOT Carnal. The Apostle Paul elaborates even further when he writes to the church at Ephesus, “For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rules of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places” (Ephesians 6:12). So the biblical view about all those who persecute the disciples of Christ is that they are spiritually blinded and deceived
by fallen, supernatural spirit power.
Against these the Christian engages in a spiritual warfare.He knows the deceived human (flesh and blood) channels of persecution are not the real foes in this warfare. The screaming mob, the threatening crowd, the beatings, the stones, the fire – all this evidence of satanic activity, and the human channels are viewed by a compassionate Christianity as subject for prayer, tolerance and pity. “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34).

So the answer to persecution is never seen in scripture as a show of corporate strength by the local churches. Christ did not allow Peter’s sword (Matthews. 26:51-54) for protection when he had legions of angels poised to defend Him. And that is the Christian’s recourse still today, not the arm of the flesh in confederated energy upon earth, but reliance upon the unseen but the real spiritual powers in heaven – come what may, and complete submission to the permissive will of God in the circumstance whatever that may be (Dan. 3:16-18)!

Meek Submission NOT Retaliatory Force or Church Confederation
It is this meek submission is face of sever persecution even unto martyrdom that breaks the heart of the persecutor! IT wasn’t a forceful confederated group of churches that moved Saul of Tarsus! It was the sight of Stephen kneeling there amidst that hail of murderous stones (Acts 7:59-60), and praying and crying with a loud voice, “Lord, lay not this in to their charge” that broke his heart! It was those forgiving words that so tortured Saul day and night even after, and brought him eventually to repentances and salvation. That an innocent man of such noble bearing soul, in the very act of being ruthlessly murdered by such a hate-filled rabble, both intercede for them and pray for their forgiveness, stabbed knives into his conscience! So it is still today! There is a real sense in
which meekness and non-resistance to evil is a greater moral persuader than vengeful retaliatory force or the power of church confederation could even be! In the spiritual realm of Christian ethics as taught and exemplified by our Lord Jesus Christ, it most certainly is.

Far better than a move to federation in face of persecution and discrimination, is the scriptural appeal to prayer and committal of our cause to God. In his First Epistle Peter writes of the example left to us by Christ, “Who, when He was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, He threatened not; but committed Himself to Him that judgeth righteously” (1 Pewter 2:23).

This is the Christian’s recourse in the face of persecution, harassment, injustice and terrorization. Wrong is wrong and evil is evil. He does not condone the wickedness done to him because he refuses to resist it. He does what the disciples of John the Baptist did when Herod cruelly beheaded their defenseless and righteous leas, when they had buried his body, “they went and told Jesus” (Mathew 14:12). So our recourse still is to “tell Jesus”. The Christian commits his cause to Him that judgeth righteously. God the righteous Jude will avenge His persecuted saint in due course in that, “day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; who will render to every man according to his deeds” (Romans 2:5). The Christian way is to leave the outcome of injustice slander, persecution and all evil done, to God, the judge of all, and pray for their persecutors (Luke 23:34).

This is not to prejudice the Christian’s right to appeal, and legitimately, to his Civil and Constitutional rights vis-a-vis unlawful actions against him. Both Paul (Acts 22:25-29), and the Lord Himself (John 18:23), drew attention to unlawful actions made against them. Paul also appealed to his citizenship rights under Roman law (Acts 25:10-12). That is not however, in the same category as a humanly conceived plan to confederate the assemblies in order to gain official recognition of our plight!

Individual appeal to Constitutional rights is allowable, both as a deterrent to and safeguard against further unlawful harassment or hurt, and to emphasize the legal and moral guilt of the persecutor. Often our Indian believers have repeatedly stood their ground when publicly harassed by the extremist group seeking to intimidate them and force them to cease witnessing. They have courageously appealed to their legitimate constitutionally guaranteed religious freedom to practice and propagate their faith; they have also sought the protection of the police whose duty it is to uphold the State Constitution and protect its citizens when their Constitutional rights are infringed. Often, however, they have been arrested by the very authority who ought to have protected them, on the ground that it was they, who by their proclamation of the Gospel were offering a provocation and thus disturbing the peace! In such a case they have done their duty by the law, and from that moment are cast upon the Providence of God for justice and protection, and may go no further by way of retaliation or confederated action.

Present Appeal to an All-India “Confederation of Local Assemblies”
What brethren in India have already done is unilaterally seek legal opinion to form a Confederation of Assemblies “to safeguard their interests and faith”! They promise to preserve the independence of local assemblies but they impose “bylaws” of association! They propose a ‘General Body’ responsible for the oversight and administration of the Confederation with an appointed paid Administrator. The Confederation will have power to register church property in its name, and to operate various assembly activities. It would represent the constituent assemblies to the Government and other agencies, give professional status to evangelists, help assemblies and evangelists in time of persecution, and undertake legal help where required.This is the proposal. But no matter how appealing the concept of confederation is in the short term, in the long term it would prove absolutely disastrous to the principle of autonomy or independence for the local assemblies.

While giving local churches a more concentrated and seemingly stronger voice with the central government or loyal authorities, federation would have crossed the strict boundary of obedience to the scriptural pattern. It would be a move away from God’s design of His churches (see and cp. Heb. 8:5) in favor of the ideas of human expediency! Nothing should be more dangerous than challenging the wisdom of God in this critical matter!

Man’s Institution Challenges the Divine Constitution /b]Once a federation of local assemblies was established, no matter how reassuring the promises that it would not hinder the expression of local autonomy in practice it most definitely would! [b]An organization would have displaced the organism! Man’s institution would challenge the divine constitution! A name will be given that distinguishes it from all other Christian bodies, thus placing it immediately on unscriptural denominational or factional ground. An inevitable centralization of control and command would wickedly be put in place. NO doubt initially, it may be, very competent and spiritually minded administrators would guide the new federation.

However, it would not be long before strong-minded, unspiritual, and ruthless power-hungry men would begin to take over the churches of God, and control would pass into the hands of men who would silence all protest, and consolidate their power by despotic rule! History repeatedly teaches the bitter lesson of turning form the rock foundation of divine revelation to the shifting sands of human reasoning! The whole structure—and mark my words—will sooner or later collapse- and great will be the fall of it!

Division!
This whole proposal if pursued will inevitably divide the Indian assemblies from top to bottom, and make havoc of what has been a great work of God. Let our Indian local assemblies by duly warned, and refuse to shift from the truths and principles of local church autonomy they have received as a legacy from their spiritual father. It has proved a blessing up to now- and our prayer is it will continue so to be as we honor God by submitting to His holy and inspired Word. Amen and Amen!
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby we4brethren » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:19 pm

Well biju and all I appreciate your concern for the funds and its distribution to proper hands
the things I noticed from the above posts is-
1. should not pump large amount of money to funds.
If there is no funds to collect and distribute money for christian ministry and mission the next source is pumping to persons. Is it right?
We have not only Baranabs, we have sathyam Trust who collect crores of rupees from different source, but there is no mention of the amount it collects and the way it is distributed. We have many more such personalized trusts and people who collect large amount of money. The thing is that they distribute money according to their will.

In a fund there are at least more than one man to say a word about the distribution of fund. Not only that they publishes the account annually, which is a good sign

You may say that money has to come to the church to distribute to the needy people as we see in relation to Jerusalem Church. Even there was problem in the distribution.
Let us think practically- Which church can faithfully distribute amount to evangelists working in different parts of India and world. Who will take initiation in the assembly on this matter. If one man handles this service this will turn automatically to personalized ministry where he controls the money.

It is easy to say and preach but practically difficult.
Though I have many disagreements in the functioning of Funds, I found it as the only way to collect money and to distribute to the need which can be at least 25% faithfulness. There may be partiality and other problems but it is far better than one man ministry.

Many times people go to foreign countries in the name of different ministries and collects money, once money is in their hands they forget the ministries they displayed and the money goes to family account. For the name sake they will do some distribution here and there.

Accountability is there in the preaching but not practically.

I am happy that Operation Barnabas has stated the mount it collected. That is a good sign. But there are many other who did not even say a single word about the amount they collected in the name of brethren evangelists and ministries.

It does not mean that I am supporter of Barnabas. I too do not agree with all what they do.
But by comparing it with many other trusts I see the publishing of a statement about the money collected is good
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby Doubting_Thomas » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:59 pm

i feel nothing wrong if some fund collect money. only thing, they should publish accounts. they should audit the accounts and publish accounts. then we will know they are not doing wrong.
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby sam k john » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:08 pm

Amen do-die,
Can you send me the copy of the book by Michael Brown, if you have?

Very funny to hear the prejudice and perception that 'Churches' cannot 'distribute' its resources :)
What a great licence that Assemblies will fail and that we need to have funds? May be need to understand if this was the reason Barnabbas or other trusts are into picture :-)
Will BCCF have another funding unit or will it acquire another 'chotta' funds?; There is a greater need to pump money since 'legal expertise' is very costly. The Kumbanad Kickoff meeting itself was costing 100,000 according to the report by its convenor.

As Br. M Brown wrote, this would be the downfall of Brethren...

Sola Scriptura - Sola Pocketaaa
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby Kochumon » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:31 pm

"So in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others" (Romans 12:5). To the church at Corinth Paul wrote: "For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body" (1 Corinthians 12:13). In these and many other passages Scripture likens the church to a living human body. Obviously it conceives of the church as an ORGANISM.

When Paul and Barnabas, on their way homeward from their first missionary journey, visited the various places where they had recently preached the gospel, they "appointed elders for them in each church", since they wanted this organism to grow in the Lord. it would have been easy task for them to set-up a so called ****Fellowship amidst of hunger, starvation, persecution. But the question is WHY? There is no need.

We do not follow men and we do not follow organizations. And we do not have men as our masters and we do not have organizations as our masters. Jesus defined this explicitly in Matthew 23:8, you have only one Master and you are all brothers. We have only one Master and we cannot serve two masters. We cannot serve the Lord and an organization. If we are devoted to an organization we will despise the Lord. So we only can hate an organization and love the Master. There is no compromise.

Hitherto, there is no mention of a funding agency. The current pattern is a blunder borrowed from the WESTERN world. as sam pointed out above it is now the way to pocket
'We should have followed the good attributes of 'Saipp'
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby Kochumon » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:37 pm

CST uncle,

Local Assemblies are not a failure in managing the resources God has given.
It is an allegation posted by the fund lovers and its life long secretaries. I can testify how efficiently our assembly handles money without any so called funds to the missions in India and other Countries. Come on, it is the design of the almighty, it can never fail. It is only that Satan creeps in with his strategies to tear it apart. But that will not stop His work.


Kochumon
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby sam k john » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:42 pm

I agree with You Kochumon
the enemy is waiting for an opportunity to enter.
Now in the form of BCCF it has done its entry and sowed the poisonous seeds.
With prayer let us ask God to do a cleansing or these are the days that he is at the door
The clock strikes ....
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby FaithfulBrethren » Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:19 am

Brethren, it seems that two things have got confused here. For the sake of clarity let me place them in the form of points:

1. While it is true that assemblies can easily manage the collection of funds and disbursement, assemblies in in India are totally forbidden from receving money from outside India. Such ban came first under FCRA and I think now it is under FEMA. Only registered charitable trusts with FCRA number from the government can gather and distribute funds if it involves money from any place outside India. Since a good amount of gifts are sent by brothers from outside India, assemblies cannot handle them. Breach of FCRA is a serious offense. (I am surprised that many of you who are in India do not know about this).

2. We need to focus our attention more on WHAT the people are doing with the funds that they collect. I presume that KEMFund, IET and GFTI are beyond reporaoch as they do publish accounts in detail. I have seen one or two of Barnabas, but I have not seen their latest audited statement of accounts. Thus I keep my figers crossed about them.

3. Happy Voice, which has raised its voice against Barnabas, is another trust that has been collecting money now for more than two decades. They do not furnish any accounts. Thus they have no moral rights to question anyone. In fact when we sent gifts to some of the evangelists trained by them, we immediately had a note from them that ALL support should go throuh them and not directly to evangelists. Our assembly did not comply because we felt a rat in it and decided to support evangelist directly. We now hear that Gujarat Brethren Bible School has started threatening those who receive funds from our assembly directly. He wants all money to go through him. We need to put pressure on him to publish accounts.

4. Others who collect crores but do not publish accounts are Steward Association of India, Sathyam Trust, Rehoboth, MV Babu's trusts, numerous trusts in Andhara Pradesh, the huge trusts left behind by late ME Cherian etc. In fact there are big family fights now to cotrol the property worth hunreds of millions in AP and Madurai by family members.

We need to demand trasparancy from all. The following info is to be demanded:

1. Their FCRA numbers (to see if they comply with the rules or are they cheating the government)
2. Audited statements of accounts for last 3 years

We need a cleansing. Let us begin it NOW.
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby sam k john » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:24 am

CST and all,
why do you guys talk with a biased feel that Local assemblies are a failure. You are seeing God and His design with suspicion?
my point is that if kerala brethren overseas and NRI's needing to support an evangelist why can't they send it directly to that evangelist rather than worrying of fema or tera.
why should there be a gmi / msc / msp --- tunnel --- barnabbas / kemf / gft?
If NRI's know how to save money in their respective worldly banks? why can't they do it to a poor mission field worker?
Why do you want to add muscle and fibre to a fund overseas and in india?
I know the answer, as most of you. - 'ithu vayattipizhappintae prshnamaaa' - and you call it ministry?
May God open your eyes
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby we4brethren » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:17 pm

Dear sam k John

I am really sorry about you calling evangelists- ഇതു വയറ്റിപ്പിഴപ്പിന്റെ പ്രശ്നം എന്നു.(vayati pizhappinte prashnam). I have found only one community in the world who degrades the status of a missionary or the men who serves God in this manner. there may be some who see it as a way of living. But most of the evangelists and missionaries who work among the people are deeply committed men. And many of them are really struggling to meet their daily needs of livelihood.

World religions and denominational christians respect its people who serves the temple, church etc. But the Brethren fail in it.

It is for your kind information that there are many evangelist works and earn money and serves the Lord. Because they have no name in the fund list. and the assembly you say are not able to meet his needs.

I have seen with my eyes evangelists struggle to live and at the same time serving Lord without complaining any man.

so this is my request not to degrade the men of God saying vayatipizhappinte prashnam. This is a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit who calls and sends and directs people to the mission field.
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby no_cc » Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:08 pm

Comment from Sam "ഇതു വയറ്റിപ്പിഴപ്പിന്റെ പ്രശ്നം എന്നു.(vayati pizhappinte prashnam). " can be read as a comment on the majority /minority who use this only for for വയറ്റിപ്പിഴ . I'm, sure Sam would also respect good evangalists.

Another comment on Noel Couples by Biju ,

"These missionories sold out all they had in NZ came to kerala , bought land , lived with the people in the locality and became one among the people of this locality .
They made schools ,distributed all they had and became friends of the people. They helped the people , with their money . They did not bring huge funds from outside and build super ministries . " - can be seen as a model .

But Organisations are now using this a a Sheild to bring in money in Crores . BCCF is using them as a mask to build their empire. Evangalists inturn become these "ministry's proprieter's" way for വയറ്റിപ്പിഴ !!!
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby sam k john » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:27 pm

Thank you mr 'brethren we' for your burden and cautious concern in deciphering my post to aim evangelists and to divert the thread.
for your kind info, MY POINT THERE WAS TO 'way for വയറ്റിപ്പിഴ' OF THE FUNDS WHO TUNNEL GOD'S RESOURCES AND NOT EVANGELISTS. If you thought that it was about evangelists, it just shows your perverted mind, nothing else.

why should there be a gmi / msc / msp --- tunnel --- barnabbas / kemf / gft?
If NRI's know how to save money in their respective worldly banks? why can't they do it to a poor mission field worker?
Why do you want to add muscle and fibre to a fund overseas and in india?
I know the answer, as most of you. - 'ithu vayattipizhappintae prshnamaaa' - and you call it ministry?


Instead of muscling the funds with resources the concern should be for individual evangelists and other ministries. Where can we find the design of a funding organization in the word. The greatest danger of any organization is that it will engulf the local assemblies sooner or later. I don't want to mention any names of such organizations as everybody knows most of them

sam
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby do-or-die » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:51 pm

I agree with you sam, organization is often an idol, a “golden calf” in the hearts of its members.
Jesus says, "How dare you- you make up all these rules that you yourselves aren't willing to live by but you put them on everyone else."
Within the body of Christ, there is something that is deadly that sucks the passion right out of an enthusiastic believer. It is something our Lord Jesus hated with a passion. It is what drowns the sparks of fire for God and suffocates the Holy Spirit's movement - ORGANIZATIONS
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby no_cc » Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:27 pm

Agree to Faithful brethren on Transparency

1. Their FCRA numbers (to see if they comply with the rules or are they cheating the government)
2. Audited statements of accounts for last 3 years

I want to add Suvisheshakan BalaSangham to the list . They haven't audited their accounts for the past many years.

Don't pump money to these organisations.
We often feel God wants us to send money to these ministries .NRIs who have money feel that is their duty . Many Preachers who visit them mis guide them saying this is why God Send them abroad . They fall into this . They just want to send money to someone. They find Channels to send out money and feel they did their part of Gospel work . This in-turn create power brokers (a new Distributor class - not Evangalists) .


"Love thy neighbour" - Not to see if your Neighbor is a beleiver , before you help him.!!
This is purely selfish way of thinking , that I have to spend out money for God , so let me find Brethren man made ministries , channel the money and be happy of it. If we have money to spend we must give it out to every one in need , including our Brethren Missionories if they are in need .

Did Any Apostiles start any organisation to channel up money ??? For Legal help ?? Didn't they have Persecutions ? Didnt they travel and spread Gospel.
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby no_cc » Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:33 pm

I heard Operation Barnabas is a Canadian Program . Brothers in Canada must rethink on this.
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby we4brethren » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:59 pm

Dear all, This is not diverting on vayatipizhappu
The common funds among us is KEMF, IET, GFTI, GGFAngamaly. None of the members of this fund survive with the funds. Rather they support the evangelists. Trust karkku ithu vayatipizhappalla. Then to WhoM?????????????????????????????????
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby PramodR » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:42 am

If someone claims that there is good in organizations, i say that they have done more nuisance to the Assemblies health than any good one can think of. It is worldly thinking and one cannot borrow such philosophies to church. It is satan's way of digging the assemblies. Which organization is transparent in its mission? This is not a blame game but my experience (cousin of mine) who weaps for prejudices in dealings over the years that he has worked in it. It is outside God's design.
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby shalom » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:55 am

New Office at Kumbanad; Why only Kumbanad?
Reports in Jeevavachanam 14/01/2011
Attachments
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New Office at Kumbanad; Why only Kumbanad?
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby brethrenAB » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:12 am

What is 'MUNGAAAMI VAZAKKKUU', UDAKKU and so on?
Are they organizational Characteristics or by-products?
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby kumbanadan » Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:43 pm

Another way to make Kumbanad the Center of all Brethren Activities.

This was in their agenda for many years .

Q1 : How can English medium school premises be given for KEM Fund.See the news , they already did start one , now Steward might give approval, meaning they started even before approval.
The Joint sec of KEM fund is also the convener of Brethren English Medium School . He has the Key of this office , so he forcefully opened up a room to start an office - He did an enchroachment into the property owned by Noel Missionery Couples,now under Steward .
He's the office bearer of 5 organisations in our community . This is why we need to maintain one position for one person as in KPCC . They also have the same problem.

Why is Jeevavachanam blowing tumphet for this enchroachment ? He's another side of this coin.

Q2: English medium School is a government recognized unaided school ,not our nursery school.
The rule of the schools clearly say , once the premises have been defined for a govt recognized school, by law ,they cannot be used for any other organisation . This action is not legal and can even cancel the recognation of the Brethren English Medium Schools.

Q3: BCCCC had this in agenda ,even before they gathered . This is a planned effort . KEM fund had asked for 5 sent land in Kumbanad and was declined. So now they enchroached to our property .Clearly Steward was against this plan .
This is a shameful action . This property is now misused for all power , money centered actions
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby jobinjohn » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:16 pm

who is this common factor in all these organizations?
Does he has a team to attain this goal?
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby truthteller » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:19 pm

Hey Jobin.. Two main person who is in all these committe are BCCF Secretary & BCCF Jt Secretary..
Now in many discussion BCCF Secretary's name and his agenda is coming.. As everyone knows, he only wants to be known as a Brethren leader in Kerala... So trying to get berth in all committe..If possible will represent in general election also..His ultimate is for name & stage only..Whoever knows him personally, knows his intention well..I hope he is not having any other person agenda...

And the second person who is connected with most these things are non other than one of the BCCF Jt Secretary..As per my analysis, he is person who is behind all these BCCF.. His intention is very clear.. He wantsmoney, power and everything.. He is backing everyone to start and he will make sure to seat back as safer side.. He is very ,much clever.. He know coperate world very well..He came from gulf and took charge of SBS General Secretary through big drama, even worser than Political drama.. I was also nearby when that meeting happened and with his close aids..As everyone agrees he bring new revival in SBS... but we need to understand what was his main agenda.. few noted things
1)He started printing all SBS printed material in one particular press in Eranakulam.. Now a days SBS is having lot of book materials....(It would be good, if some one can bring more details around this press)
2)he started SBS & VBS not only in India, but in US & gulf as well.. so that every year many times visiting gulf & US..
3)Also to raise fund for SBS, he started visiting outside...
4) He brings his cousion brother as media chief of SBS and his co-brother as SPOC with Kumbanad area, to make sure that everything is safer.
5) Now he is not having much time for SBS or not willing to move out from SBS.. So I heard they introduced 1 more General Secretary for SBS.. So now 2 General Secretary for SBS.. Now he started concerating on BCCF as well.
6) Now he is in back seat of BCCF to make sure current Secretary is being targetted by everyone.. Within couple of year, he is thinking that every probs will be settled and he can take that seat and bring money from US and also play with BCCF for his own agenda..
7) He & Media Chief wants to represent Indian brethren in world forum, to make sure they are getting more funds.

Dear Brothers..In many of the discussion we are targetting Media chief and current Secretary... but the person behind all these things (Joint Secretary) is clever as well crooked like anything.. Every one should be careful.... I am sure, many bros know many such experience.. Media chief and current Secretary are the just face for now.. but the culprit is the bigger one..This guy will kick the current secretary within years.. It is for sure.. So be careful.. He is using all his ways.. He knows how to talk to each person. He will praise all the person, even ready to praise criminal. He is just waiting to bring his co-brother also to this committe within couple of years.. Even if he don't know you personally, withinn seconds he shows that he knows you very well..

One more main person whom no one is mentioning anywhere is BCCF Treasurer.. He is trying to expand his kingdom of business, by showing political leader that he is having a big community behind him..and he is the main leader of this community, like the other Hindu community leader whom everyone knows well ..With the help of his money, he is buying many Brethren evanglist.. His only agenda is His own business by showing Brethren community to Political leaders..

I feel these are 3 main person, everyone should be noted.. In this most dangerous person is BCCF Jt Secretary only.. and then Treasurer.. They are here to sell Brethren community for their personal goal.. The media chief and current Secretary are nothing.. They only wants big names....Be careful

Sorry for hurting anyone.. but I thought to write things directly what I felt in this.. We need to be careful..
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby truthteller » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:30 pm

Jobin,
For his second point, does he has a team to attain his goal..?? yes I big big team behind all these..A big stage committe ,whom they are giving good training..Business person is having money to buymany evanglist and the SBS King is having power to control all these person.. If you want to see.. go and attend committes like SBS committe, Kumband Convention Committe,VBS , the marriage functions or funeral function of their close aids .. You can see the entire stage team.. a great cordination.
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby truthteller » Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:56 pm

Just a definition of the work of 3 main person..

BCCF Secretary : By using all worldly & wicked ways, he made money and used this money to influence many leader. Now with that Influence and money, He is trying to become a Brethren Leader.

BCCF Jt Secretary :By selling God, He is making money.

BCCF Treaserur : By selling God's children, He is making money.

BCCF Media Chief : By selling God's gifts, He is praising himself.

You are going to see these 4 person everywhere in Brethren in near future.. So be careful!!

John 13:14-17:Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet. I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

Now Brethren are thinking that they are bigger than our Master!
Where are we going?
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby verpadukaran » Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:06 am

"Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture"

Very good topic. I have just come to this forum. Already many have contributed and I could not read completely, yet I just want to say this much, strictly speaking, according to the scripture organizations have no relevance at all.

But often as I thought about this hot issue, I feel that God in His sovereign will allows certain organization that has a mission which is beyond the capacity of a local assembly, I can not question the wisdom of God.

But to see that every evangelist forming an organization at every corner and totally ignoring the local assembly is not at all a healthy practice. There are certain foreign organizations who will help only people who form organizations. They will not support an individual evangelist. So to get support they are forced to start some ministry.

Then there relatives of those who hold positions in foreign assembly or organization who can easily support their relatives back in Kerala or India, such relatives also begin organizations. I believe all such ministries are against the word of God.

A very simple test to know the relevance is just to see how do they relate with their local assembly. Do they attend their local church. Do they honor the elders of local assemblies? What is the opinion of the local assembly elders?

We brethren have gone very far from the truth. Till recently we were confused about the mushrooming organizations, now the mother of all organizations has come to swallow every brethren in India. How strange the way things are going on among us.

Only one option, be ready for another 'verpadu'!!!!! Very shortly the truth will come out, it will be known who is for the truth.

Encourage and even prepare the believers to come out of the 'brethren denomination' that is under construction.
verpadukaran
 
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby shalom » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:16 pm

Amen to your post Verpadukaran

By the way why do we need 'BRETHREN COLLEGES' like this....
Bellievers who fund these... beware; After digging and filling of wells at PATHANAMTHITTA AND REHOBOTH THRISSUR; now at KALLISSERY - where the most split of local assemblies in brethren history....


Moderator - Why don't you open a thread for NEED FOR BIBLE COLLEGES...

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colleges for 10 and 12 passed
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shalom
 
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby verpadukaran » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:44 pm

This year one well-known Bible Institute in India could not get any student even after trying their best! In Kerala some of the Government school teachers have to bring in students some how to retain their job. Similarly there will be a time, these mushrooming Institutes will have to search for students. In some places the students are from the North east where a theological degree is accepted just like a secular degree, so these north east students find the easy way to get a degree and a job with out paying any fees!!

Another fact is that we have so many brethren theological doctors, they need a job, so it may be necessary to start such institutions to give them a job !!!!
verpadukaran
 
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby shalom » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:25 am

Why our assembly halls remain closed? Organizational impact? The leaders....
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shalom
 
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Re: Relevance of Organizations based on the scripture

Postby verpadukaran » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:34 am

It seems many posts after October have been deleted. Why?

About Kallissery, it is an old issue. The assembly is gathering as two groups, in two house. As far as I understand it is not closed entirely, once in a week a meeting is going on there.
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